Discussion Forums - Questions about SwapaCD

I'm frustrated. I am using the Wrapper guidelines to a T, using a thin cardboard inside the wrapper and using plenty of shipping tape for protection for added support yet two of my CDs have arrived damaged. Suggestions on how to further protect my CDs in transit without having to pay for bubble envelopes and the increased shipping that costs????

Keep them in their case, put a piece of TP between disc and tray. Tape the thing shut. Put in an envelope, not necessarily padded. Pay the extra postage. Repeat.

Remember the joy of waking up on Christmas and opening those presents? They were wrapped correctly. Wrap them like you want to receive them!

Love and Peace,

St. Reno

Use at least one piece of thicker rigid cardboard.

Heather,

Another thought is to re-use bubble wrap bags that you receive (if you don't want to buy them).  You could cut them down a bit (if you open them carefully) and there should be plenty of room for your disk, inserts, and thick cardboard backing.  The thick cardboard from cartons works perfectly - and you can usually get them for free from your supermarket or big box store and cut down the cardboard to slightly larger than the largest insert.

But I agree - try to package them the way you'd like to receive them.   Even though the recipient gets their credit back, it's a little frustrating to finally be next in line to get a CD you want, you get it, and it's broken.

Regards,   Steve :)

I received two broke on the same day recently, one arrived in about 25 pieces!  Very frustrating.  I also have had two reported as cracked when they arrived, even though I used a stiffer cardboard.

Forget the cereal box cardboard, use a thicker corrugated type, and preferably sandwich the CD between two pieces.  And if you have the jewel case, its best to pay the bit extra and ship that too, as that will go a long way in protecting the CD, especially if you put a bit of soft material inside to keep the CD locked in place.

But here's a curious thought.....how is it that Blockbuster and NetFlix do't use cases OR cardboard, just a tyvek envelope and a tyvek sleeve and you never hear about them getting damaged in the flipping postal system? Do you suppose they pay them a premium for it (gutteral laugh out loud).

I just can't understand this.

Well: two things about that.

First of all, DVDs do come cracked once in a while.  Not very often, interstingly, but sometimes.  Somehow it's no biggie, though, since the disk doesn't seem like it's "yours", never to be found again.

Thing is, Netflix and Blockbuster  likely have some business model with an precisely-calculated acceptable rate of damage, so it's all "part of the cost of doing business".  Like SACD, they don't make any big deal about it, but just supply a replacement.    I suspect our hosts have a similar business model  (and so their packing "recommendations" should just be viewed as what they are willing to accept in terms of "loss" -- and not a guaranteed best-method-of shipping.  But -- that's a matter of guessing on my part.) 

The other thing is -- Someone once mentioned they thought that leaving a little bit of space on either side of the disk  helped with minimizing damage to Netflix DVDs because it gave the grabber-machine something to hold onto that's not actually a disk.  It may be a help.  I've started to sort of copy the netflix method with my shipped CDs for the same reason....

DVDs are thicker than CDs.

Netflix also sends DVDs from regional centers so that they do not travel as far as some of our trades do through the postal system. I don't know about Blockbuster.

Has anyone thought about trying that rubbery shelf liner? The thought just occured to me. You pay $1 for 6 feet of it at the dollar store and even if you double the wrapping, it would still go a long way.

I just received a broken CD, which was a first for me and was very pleasantly surprised that my credit was refunded.

I haven't had any CD's broken when I send them, but maybe I'll try cardboard and shelf liner, just to be safe:) Bubble wrap can be expensive.

just putn them in some sort of thin jewel case. its not that much heavier, so it wont kill the shipping costs as much as the original jewel case would. thats how i recieve most of my cds, and i just reuse the cases because im too cheap to buy them mself. :P the only cds i've recieved cracked were ones that were wrapped in teh paper wrapper.

The thickness/rigidity of the cardboard doesn't matter. If a CD is going to wind up broken, cardboard isn't going to protect it. It might make you feel better, but seriously...grab an old CD you don't care about or a CD-R that was a bad burn. Now flex it. That sucker will give at least an inch before you feel any tension, and almost another inch before it actually snaps. Now try to envision a situation where the CD bends like that during shipping and ask yourself if the cardboard would do a darn thing to help!

Look how far this bugger bends!
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3673/001rh.jpg

Whatever blunt force trauma happens to snap a disc on the way to us won't be stopped by cardboard, corrugated or otherwise. The package gets slammed in any of various doors between here and there (crack!), or it's tightly wedged in a stack of packages but one side is peeking out and something falls on it (snap!), or it's lying in the bottom of a bin at a 45 degree angle up against the bottom and one of the sides and a big old book from PBS gets tossed into the bin at just the right angle (shatter!).

The cardboard just gives an illusion of protection. 

"The cardboard just gives an illusion of protection."

Words of wisdom.

"The cardboard just gives an illusion of protection."

I have to respectfully disagree. In the year plus that I've been a member, I've received only three discs that were cracked. The first one had a small crack that was only visible on the data side and as it was a withdrawn library CD, I suspect it was cracked when it was sent and the sender never knew it was cracked. The other two CDs are another kettle of fish altogther. One was cracked entirely in half and the other was cracked through from the outer edge to the center hole. These CDs were sent without any protection -- just enclosed in two sheets of printer paper. I think I've received 3 CDs packaged like this and only 1 made it through unscathed. 99% of the time, I send my CDs in the suggested SwapaCD wrappings and I think 2 have arrived damaged. Frustratingly, I've had a much bigger problem with rogue postal employees thinking (incorrectly) that $.81 isn't enough postage. From my experience, the damage rate for a  CD wrapped as SwapaCD recommends is much, much, much smaller then if you just wrap the CD in paper. So the Cardboard has to be offering significant (but of course not total) protection.

"The other two CDs are another kettle of fish altogther. One was cracked entirely in half and the other was cracked through from the outer edge to the center hole. These CDs were sent without any protection -- just enclosed in two sheets of printer paper."

Well, let me put it to you differently. Thinking logically, what do you think that happened to the discs that caused them to be cracked, and would cardboard have made a difference? Probably not. I mean, think about it - what really could happen that would crack a paper-wrapped disc that wouldn't crack a cardboard wrapped disc? Both of the two cracked discs I received here were packaged spectacularly well.

Like someone previously mentioned, Netflix only uses thin Tyvek sleeves, and I've gotten hundreds of DVDs from them over the past seven years and not had a single one cracked. (Whoever said DVDs are thicker is mistaken. DVDs and CDs are both exactly 1.2mm thick, as are Blu-Ray discs. This is an absolute necessity to ensure backwards compatibility.) The difference with Netflix is far, far fewer hands touch their discs.

It is my understanding that NetFlix has a deal with the USPS to keep the discs out of the sorting equipment.

The only way to ensure that SwapaCD discs stay out of the sorting equipment is to pack them in something that is thicker than 1/4 inch.  "Non-Machineable" printed on the labels has certainly helped, but is not 100% effective.

The thing with Netflix is that their shipping envelopes are longer on both ends of the disc, so there is a place where the automatic machinery can grab the envelopes on either side without grabbing the disc itself.   When the machinery grabs a disc sent on SACD with minimal packaging (even though it clearly states non machinable), there is no such edge and it grabs the "package" by the edge, which is also over the disc.

Regards,

Steve :)

"It is my understanding that NetFlix has a deal with the USPS to keep the discs out of the sorting equipment:"

Still mulling that one over....I can hardly imagine that those little red envelopes receive velvet-glove treatment once they enter the mainstream of mail...

I am wondering if the sheer bulk of identical items going out at one time may help netflix disks.  Those babies have to be automated all along in their processing, but if they are spit out the back door of the netflix facility into a sturdy, block-like stack that arrives at the P.O. that way -- maybe that helps them enter the system pretty intact.  After that, I suspect they're on their own.

Phil, your theory about breakage is right on, I think -- I'd only add one thing and that is that  SACD must consider a certain  failure rate within the range of "acceptable" for its business model -- so how can we really demand any better from the average trader?  I mean the sometime trader, the beginner, the well-meaning trader who dutifully reads the directions then thinks no more about it.

 I think I've really changed my mind over the years about "damage" and my fellow traders -- as long as they do what SACD asks. It annoys me to get a broken CD between two sheets of typing paper, personally, but I think a lot rests on "intent", but hey.  I can't blame anybody for doing what the site says to do.  SACD is  really good about reimbursement, and I guess that's all it really comes down to, in the business model sense. 

So, yeah, you sort of have to exceed the site's own standard to protect a CD, reasonably. (and personally, I will) ...but until the site decides to officially to recommend better, there we have it.   

(I just looked, and apparently, I've received 572 CDs.  I think I've probably gotten two or three cracked.)

"It is my understanding that NetFlix has a deal with the USPS to keep the discs out of the sorting equipment."

I had heard that about NetFlix discs.  But I don't know for certain.  The more I think about it, it doesn't seem very likely.  Steve and IC make very good points.

Now I do understand that SwapaCD has to figure acceptable loss into their business model.  But it costs them nothing to recommend better shipping practices.  In fact, the fewer discs that break, the better their bottom line.  I really don't see why the resistance to upgrading the shipping recommendations.

Well, there are "costs" and "costs". Maybe they are weighing the risk that by being too particular about packaging, not interesting new members at a rate that keeps the site floating...The perceived "hassle factor" for new members vs. the "it's SO EASY!" appeal.  I mean, if they starting talking bubble wrap and special mailers purchased cheaply in bulk, then there's going to be some risk that potential new traders who don't know this place  from a hole in the ground will just click on through to someplace else and never come back.

There's something so reassuringly familiar about cereal box cardboard: everybody has some.  And as Robyn points out -- it does offer a significant improvement over nothing.  Just guessing....

I am wondering if the sheer bulk of identical items going out at one time may help netflix disks. Those babies have to be automated all along in their processing, but if they are spit out the back door of the netflix facility into a sturdy, block-like stack that arrives at the P.O. that way -- maybe that helps them enter the system pretty intact.

I don't think Netflix DVDs ever touch machinery anywhere except at Netflix itself in custom sorters. They are manually plucked out of the regular mail along with any other packages before they ever hit machines. Look at the mail sorting machine videos on YouTube. If any CD or DVD ever went through those machines it would be completely shattered into a ton of tiny pieces, not just suffer a single crack.

You're spot on about the Netflix DVDs being bundled and presorted for shipment. Each Post Office gets a nice neat daily stack of red envelopes. All returns originating at Post Office X go to the same address, regardless of what's on the envelope (the return address on the envelope is where it came from - returning them all back to the same address is faster for everyone: the USPS, Netflix, and the customers). There really is minimal handling. Even at the Netflix distribution centers workers manually check the contents of the return envelopes, scan them to find out who gets it next, then a new envelope is printed with the next customer's address, and it's wrapped and sent on its way.

Now I do understand that SwapaCD has to figure acceptable loss into their business model. But it costs them nothing to recommend better shipping practices. In fact, the fewer discs that break, the better their bottom line.

How so? SACD doesn't take any sort of financial hit when you report a damaged CD. They never refund anyone any actual cash. They just tell you "OK, you got a bad CD, so we'll give you permission to have someone else send you another CD." The money in your account might as well be called froozles for all it's really worth. In the end SACD still has your real money. If the same person is found to be sending bad CDs repeatedly, I suspect SACD will kick them out as a courtesy to the rest of us, not as any sort of money-saving action.

Well, a broken CD actually does cost them a little bit.  When they refund the $0.49 back into your account, it takes one more CD than it would have, before you have to add more money to your account.  I will admit that even considering the thousands of CDs traded every month, the percentage of broken discs is rather negligible for SwapaCD.  The real hit is when you finally receive that long wished for disc that arrives in more than one piece and there is no other copy to replace it.

Phil, that is really fascinating!  I've always had a soft spot for stuff like that -- I always watched the little Misterogers  films about factories, over my kids' heads.. thanks for the enlightenment!

Just a side question: I've been here about a year and a half and every transaction has been perfect until about two months ago. Since then I've gotten two cracked discs, one that was scratched on the topside so it was unplayable and one missing artwork.

Am I gonna wind up on some communist undesirables list for the sudden increase in reported problems?