Discussion Forums - Questions about SwapaCD

I'm returning to SACD to give it another try but I'm not sure I'm liking this "rank" thing for wish lists. 

So basically if there are obscure, hard to find CD's that I really want I should keep them at rank #1 or I will be guaranteed to be passed over if someone else comes along and ranks it higher... at any time.  They could sign up a year after me and still get it before me simply because I had it in slot #2 rather than #1.

Any CD's I have at the bottom of my list will continually be passed over considering how far down the list they are.  For popular CD's how does one ever get this wishlisted item without losing their pseudo-spot in line for the hard to find CD?

Are "ranks" equivalent to line number on your wishlist? 

I'm not seeing the benefit of this system.  I wouldn't have a CD on my wishlist if I didn't want it, why can't everyone can't wait their fair turn.  I'm not sure I want to continue in this system... I have about 17 CD's I'm getting ready to mail out this weekend but I might just cancel everything if this is how things work.  Can someone shed some light on this?

I believe you may have misunderstood a little about how the new WIsh List works. I would encourage everyone to read the Help Center topic that is titled "How the Wish List Works".  You can find the topic through the Help Center or by clicking on the link at the top center of your Wish List page.

In the first paragraph we state the following:
"Your position in line is determined by how long you have had the CD on your Wish List and what Rank you gave it during that time."

This means that the primary factor in determining your postion in line is how long the CD has been on your Wish List. The ranking gives you the ability slightly increase the speed at which you move through the line.

I would also like to point out that the new system does not give any extra benefits to new members.  All members still have the same fair chance to get in line for CDs. 

In the example you gave you said:
"They could sign up a year after me and still get it before me simply because I had it in slot #2 rather than #1."

What would really happen in this case would that it would take over 10 years for someone ranking a CD as #1 when you had it #2 for a year to pass you.  As you can see that small difference in rank means very little. I hope this helps answer your question.

The SwapaCD Team

You say that - that it will take years or months to get passed up, but my #4 keeps moving backwards (people keep passing me up). 

I just moved back in line for my #1 ranked WL CD that I've had on my WL for several months.  Since it's #1 on my wishlist, I'm wondering how I moved back a spot (unless someone was ahead of me and it was posted and they never got it/it broke in mail).  I hope that's what happened, because if I'm still moving back with it ranked #1, I guess I'll NEVER get it!  LOL

I still don't see a need for the ranking system. Infact, I think it's unfair. FIFO should be the only criteria, regarding the Wish List. First to put the CD on the Wish List; first to request it, no matter what number it is on the list: 1 or 101. Simple.

I have 15 on my wish list... let's clean my desires up... send me all 15!!!!

If they remove the ranking at all, they'll probably put a limit on the # of CDs on the WL.

Otherwise, you'll have the situation that PBS had, where the majority of wishes were on a very small minority of shelves (4000+ on one shelf, for example).  

I think this is their attempt to both keep the WL moving promptly along for lots of people, and let folks put as many on their WL as they want.  It's just if you want 4000 you're going to not get the last one as fast as someone else who wants it and only has 10 wishes.

Thanks Zack for clearing that up for me, though I still have hesitations about this but I will take a wait and see attitude.  I don't mind waiting in line for something if I know that I get the same consideration everyone else does... even if it means a limit to the number of CD's on a wishlist like Kayote mentioned. 

I know it's only been a day or two since I last posted, but my #4 item, which has been on my wishlist for a month just went from #23 of 31 to #24 of 32 - it looks for all the world as if someone who just added jumped over my month old wish.

Exactly how does this algorithm work?

I've had one of mine go backwards as well.  I was initially confused when it said - currently in position 6 of 14 - estimated position in 2 weeks - 8 of 14. 

That didn't make any sense, but sure enough, I just noticed that I've gone backwards to 7 of 14 now.......  Anyone know why/how that is happening??

However, that's the only quirky thing I've seen - I really like all of the new improvements of late - Good job SACD team!

Wade

Apparently, if one is moving backward it's because someone else had their wish list on 'vacation mode' and not on auto request. 

"Apparently, if one is moving backward it's because someone else had their wish list on 'vacation mode' and not on auto request."

Can anyone confirm this?  If this is the reason for sliding backwards then I can live with that.  But... why have a ranking system at all if that's the only way someone would slide back a place, that leads me to think there's other factors that could make this happen.  So I think Dennis still has a good question.

After being active here for a few weeks I can say in general things have improved at SACD.  Great job!  Now just to find out the nitty gritty on how this wishlist really works.  ;)

The case of going from #23 of 31 to #24 of 32, and the total number of wishers increased at the same time you moved back, it certainly sounds like someone who was on vacation (or had requested a cd that went lost/damaged ) was put back in place in the line.  It is also possible, though, that someone behind you in the list moved ahead of you due to the ranking AND another person added the CD to the list.

In the case of 6 of 14 - estimated position in 2 weeks - 8 of 14, this is probably due to ranking - other people who wishlisted after you did (but perhaps just shorly afterward) have probably ranked their desire for the disk lower than you, and so are moving up the list.  You might try lowering your rank value for that disk, give it a night, and see if the system no longer thinks you will move backward in line in the next two weeks.. 

I wonder if that's true. I've had a few CDs where I was the sole wisher and they were ranked quite low on my list (in the neighborhood of 150 or 200), and my position changed from 1 of 1 to 2 of 2 in just one day. I suspected this was because someone else came along and added it, say, in her top ten, and her rank was so much higher than mine that she didn't have to wait the two full weeks to move ahead of me - it happened almost instantly. Could this be possible also?

I doubt it would happen as quickly as one day (but don't know for sure).  This sounds far more likely to be a previous requestor coming off vacation or a previously sent CD been reported lost or broken.

It seems that ranks HAVE to be able to knock you backwards--otherwise they are completely irrelevant (since order of adding would trump all).

I get what you're saying Brent (thanks).  I'm not so sure I like this ranking business so much - LOL!!   I'm now @ position 8 of 14.   :(   Reminds me of a favorite saying of mine - "The hurrier I go, the behinder I get!"

Wade

I don't like the ranking model at all - it's a black box and the reassuring explanations are patently impossible. There is simply no way that the ranking can have minimal impact on those already in the queue AND move newer requests up the line faster.

It's a zero sum game - it has to balance out!

It's also obviously much more complicated - especially as the algorithm being used is being kept secret. I'd MUCH rather have the simple FIFO with a limit on the Wishlist.

The goal is a worthy one, but we just went from one unhappy extreme (an extremely short 10-spot WL) to another (where nobody knows what's going on and you can't count on anything). There's room in the middle for a SIMPLE happy medium! Why not a straight FIFO system with a moderate Wishlist cap of say a hundred or two?

It does appear to be complicated. My rough interpretation is that ranking has minimal impact when you're comparing two wishers with rankings that are very close in number. Notice that Zack's 10-year example is addressing wishers with ranks of #1 and #2 - as close together as you can get.

It would logically follow that the farther apart each wishers' ranking is, the bigger impact it has on movement. So, to go back to my personal experience, it seems possible that if I added something at #200 on my list, and a few weeks later someone else comes along and adds it at #1, that person could pass me very quickly - maybe in just a day or two. First of all, there are 199 positions between our rankings. And second of all, even though I beat them to the punch, I only got there first by a few weeks - not a huge amount of time as far as the waiting game goes. I think this explains the downward movement on a few of my wishes. I doubt it's people coming off vacation or reporting broken discs, simply because the vast majority of my wishes are more obscure, rarely-if-ever-posted titles. There's something else at work, and it seems it must be ranking.

On a positive note, if I'm right about how this works, I could potentially expect to see less downward movement on my list as time goes on, because every week I spend waiting - even at a lower rank - should buy me a bit more security in my current position, making it harder for new wishers to pass me. We'll see how it plays out, I guess.

Hey Sheryl D.!

I see you have two versions of Elliott Smith's New Moon posted at a ranking of about 75. I posted one version of New Moon on 7/10/07 at a ranking of 8 and now I am 5 of 10 with a projection of 4 in 2 weeks. You can see how that compares with your New Moon (the one of the two that's ranked out of 10).

Your list is so huge partly because you have so many duplicates. My advice would be to continually weed out your duplicates as time goes on if one appears to be moving significantly faster than another. And if it irks you to see a particular disc move backwards, move it up some spaces and usually you'll see your projected rank moving up with it.

Edit: I've now moved down to 6 of 11. And I can't see your ranking - jjust that your New Moon's about 75th in alphabetical order.

I see you have two versions of Elliott Smith's New Moon posted at a ranking of about 75.

How can you see what she has the CD ranked at? When I look at another member's wishlist I see them alphabetized. If we indeed can see how others rank their CDs then I'm taking my wishlist private. This ranking business is bad enough without someone being able to see how I've ranked them so they can then rank theirs higher.

I don't think you can - looking at Sheryl's wishlist, there are 2 "New Moon"s on it on the second page of wishes, which would be in about the 75th place - however the list is indeed sorted alphabetically and not by rank - so the placement really doesn't mean anything.

yep, my mistake!