Search - Anton Bruckner, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Franz [Vienna] Schubert :: Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 3-5, 7-9 [Box Set]

Karaoke with Celi

L. Johan Modée | Earth | 01/21/2005

(4 out of 5 stars)

"This set is a mixed bag. It contains Celibidache's live Bruckner recordings with SWR Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra (symphonies 3,5,7, 8 and 9) and Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra (the 4th). As is well known, Celi hated studio recordings.



Celi was a great Bruckner conductor, no doubt about that, although he earned this reputation late in his career. But it is indeed painful to hear his karaoke behavior: Celi yells often loudly while conducting, frequently just before a climax, sometimes even with more lungpower than the brass, it seems. Worse than having a coughing audience, I think! This is especially the case in the third symphony, but his characteristic shouts are audible elsewhere too. But don't get me wrong: the interpretations are very fine. And the third, fourth and seventh are among the best available.



Thus these recordings are welcome additions to the Bruckner catalogue. Comparing this bargain DG collector's edition set with the very expensive EMI set, where Celi is conducting Munich Philharmonic, the speeds are swifter. This is especially the case with the eight symphony, which Celi takes extremely slow in Munich. Here are the differences for each movement:



EMI: 20'56 ; 16'05 ; 35'04 ; 32'08



DG : 16'16 ; 13'52 ; 27'08 ; 26'04



I think the earlier DG account in the present set is preferable. The Munich take is too slow, even if the attention to detail is remarkable. Similar judgements are applicable for the rest of the set as well, though the time differences are less dramatic. For example, the account of the fourth is ten minutes faster here. Comparing with Jochum, however, all Celi's speeds are very slow throughout the whole set.



SWR Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra and Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra are not famous for their Bruckner playing. In this respect, they do not outshine, say, Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, Staatskapelle Dresden, and Concertgebouw. But minor orchestras can surprise with a good conductor, as they do here.



Sound is good but not in upper demonstration class.

"

AVERAGE!!!

King Lemuel | Puyallup, WA | 08/05/2007

(3 out of 5 stars)

"It is somewhat a daunting task to label these performances as average when there are sooooo many hoodwinked, totally enthralled listeners who are spread out prostrate worshiping at the tomb of Celibidache. I did enjoy the 7th, but it is not even in the same league as Bruno Walter's Columbia Symphony Bruckner 7th, nor Klemperer's, nor Jochum's, nor Barenboim's (either CSO or BPO), nor Karjan's EMI, etc. etc.



AVERAGE! These are average performances, somewhat lacking in energy and in spark, and with very average sound.



These are Celibidache's earlier recordings before he went on to become the Jim Jones conductor of cult leaders. Hopefully the Kool Aid got misplaced. After reading some of his Holy Grail reviews, I suspect strongly that a few of these reviewers would, without questioning the command, ingest the Kool Aid.



Of his latter Bruckner symphony recordings, I have only heard his cult era Bruckner 8th . This symphony is soooooooo long that it presents the listener with a unique opportunity. That is, "do I spend the next four evenings in a row watching Wagner's four Ring Music Dramas, or do I spend them listening to Celibidache's Bruckner 8th?" I am exaggerating, but only a little.



The nice thing about the earlier performances on these discs is that there was no need for 8 intermissions during each performance, they are more or less of equivalent times as compared with the non cult leader conductors' renditions.





Response to J Grant:



Hi Mr Grant:



thanks for your comments.



Most of my comments fall under the editorial category. I was responding to the plethora of holy grail reviews his other Bruckner recordings have received with the notion that the hype far exceeds the performances. I do like these early recordings, especially compared to his other, very long ones.



At what point do we add a hyphen to Bruckner? as in, Bruckner-Celibidache. It seems a gross distortion of what Bruckner composed to put out symphony recordings under his name that approach two hours long! Did Bruckner really compose what Celibidache recorded?



Karajan has many friends and foes, but like him or not, he really is too mainstream and commercially successful to be thought of in the same light as Celibadache. I bet he still has over three hundred recordings in print plus the videos.



I have Bohm's Bruckner 3rd on LP and 4, 7, and 8 on CD and they are excellent. I enjoy Bruckner's music and it is wonderful that we have sooooo many fine recordings in great stereo that we can argue about.



"

Celibidache's most 'normal' Bruckner is full of inspiration

Santa Fe Listener | Santa Fe, NM USA | 09/02/2006

(5 out of 5 stars)

"If you are used to thinking of Celibidache as an enigmatic, glacially slow conductor, this box of Bruckner performances from DG will be an eye-opener. It dates from the Seventies, before the maestro's more eccentric inclinations set in completely--his tempos are anywhere from 2 to almost 10 min. faster in various movements. (In some places, such as the finael of Sym. #7, the tempo may actually be faster than the norm.) Here are a few comparisons with the Bruckner box set released by EMI, all with the Munich Phil. -- No 7 - Stuttgart 67', Munich 79'; No 8 - Stuttgart 84', Munich 102'; No 9 - Stuttgart 59', Munich 77'. The Stockholm and Stuttgart orchestras aren't as proficient as his own Munich ensemble, but they sound fine, as does DG's good FM radio sound, despite the fact that overall textures can be a bit thin and the treble a bit harsh.



The Gramophone reviewer speculates that Celibidache adopted such uncharacteristically fast tempos in Stuttgart because the orchestra had learned Bruckner under their previous conductor, Hans Rosbaud, a dedicated modernist whose style was swift, lean, and unsentimental. Be that as it may, measuring Celi by the metronome isn't fair. The real question is what he offers musically, and there's no doubt that he is closely attuned to Bruckner. Long passages are carved like marble; the atomosphere is often full of mystery and poetry; sonorities are built on a massive scale and then give way to intervals of lovely serenity. This is music made alive on the page. Compared to Karajan, another great Brucknerian, Celibidache is more organic and relaxed. One can quibble with things here and there, but then an entire stretch of music, such as the opening of Sym. #3, will emerge as a magnificent whole.



The only listeners who might be displeased are those who have bought into the Celi mystique during his later years; for them, if the pace isn't agonizingly slow, the true magic isn't happening. I'm not sure I can erect an altar to Celibidache's entire career, but these Bruckner recordings seem great to me, even if they are shockingly normal.



P.S. - I have a twinge of guilt that I may have oversold the virtues of "normal." Every interested listener should hear Celi's late Bruckner from Munich at its best, as in a sublime Sixth on EMI, before deciding which style is preferable."