Discussion Forums - Questions about SwapaCD

Any suggestions on how I should mark this? I requested a Led Zeppelin boxed set, all artwork, and received the discs in their jewel cases with front and back art, but not the 12x12 cardboard box and no oversized booklet. Sort of defeats the purpose of a boxed set.

I know there's been some discussion about this -- what "all art" means when you don't know what you don't know.  Sometimes we don't necessarily know about everything that the set was originally issued with....  Serious fans of music will know, but well-intentioned traders may not.

Until the team makes a statement about it, I think we're stuck with front/back inserts as the de facto definition.  Anybody else know different?

to me, as long as you got the jewel case inserts, that is all you can expect.  

The SACD system shows a photo of the boxed set cover, but that item wasn't part of the shipment. The thing is, I'd like to get the boxed set with the booklet and cardboard container, and had been waiting a long time. So if I re-wish it, I'd be at the end of the line. Now I have a chance of staying at the top of the wish list if I mark it as a "problem."

I've received CD box sets twice on SACD and both times I contacted the sender immediately after requesting the item to confirm that the box itself would be included, not just the discs and covers.  I had very good experiences both times, with senders informing me promptly that they were sending the set with all the packaging.  Of course, when requesting the item and then PM-ing the sender there is no guarantee that they will answer the question in time to cancel the shipment if not everything is going to be included and it's a deal-breaker.

Thanks other members for your comments. Here's the swapacd response, which is OK by me: The sender was not required to send anything other than the front and back artwork. The only way "extra" materials are required are if they are listed with the title on our site. For an example and more details of this, please see the Help Center item "Is my CD okay to post here?". The Help Center can be accessed from the grey menu bar across the top of every page on our site.

You should mark this CD received as you normally would. We cannot refund your credits for this CD, but if you want to add the CD to your Wish List again, we will move you to the front of the line since you are not happy with what you received (you would need to add the title, then email us 24 hours later to move you up). However, the same thing could happen again and we cannot continue to return you to the front. We can only guarantee that you will get the discs and front and back artwork.

If there is anything else we can do for you, please feel free to contact us. Thank you for being a Charter Member of the best CD club in America. Please tell everyone who enjoys listening to music about our club, because the more members we have the more CDs for everyone to trade!

If you ordered this one: http://www.swapacd.com/cd/album/11470-led+zeppelin+box+set it clearly says "[Box Set] in the title.

So according to SwapaCD's own statement, you should have expected at least the Box to have been sent. And by definition, Box Set would imply the booklet as well. I have never encountered a "Box Set" that didn't include a booklet. I think this was a bad faith trade on the part of the sender.

Of course, this is all based on my assumption that you ordered the item from the above link.

...taking this question back up....

I've been adding lots of new things this weekend, and twice I have added sets that I suspected might have had something additional besides the cases and front/back inserts.  In both cases I PMed the trader for "full disclosure": I just don't know if said items had boxes or booklets or anything more than CDs and art. In both cases I got a thank you for the heads-up but one person said he was sure there was a booklet and said he'd take it as an exception, which got me thinking.

SACD says, "The sender [is] not required to send anything other than the front and back artwork", but courtesy says to ask first -- noting Gregory's comment after he asked about sending TO him:

"I had very good experiences both times, with senders informing me promptly that they were sending the set with all the packaging.  Of course, when requesting the item and then PM-ing the sender there is no guarantee that they will answer the question in time to cancel the shipment if not everything is going to be included and it's a deal-breaker."

So my question has to do with "deal breaker" idea. If I PM you, the serious collector,  about t my four-CD "set" in four jewelcases and front/back art...but you know it originally came with box and booklet and don't want my copy, where does that leave us?  I want to act in good faith, but what if, unlike Gregory's trader, I had to say, no, I don't have anything except the CDs/art?  If I cancel and repost, there you'll be, top of the wish list, waiting.  If you cancel, do you lose your place in line?  SACD's policy seems reasonable, but I'm not sure what I'd say if I sent a full-disclosure PM and got turned down.  

>If I PM you, the serious collector

I think it is important to also keep in mind that this is a site for swapping used cds.  As such, one cannot expect to receive pristine or even like-new copies.

>I want to act in good faith

And that is the important thing, in my opinion.

I guess in your case, you could list the 4-cd box set as cd+front cover.  Perhaps there is more than one person waiting for the cd and perhaps another person in line has it wishlisted as disc-only.

When I asked potential senders whether the box and/or booklets would be included, I guess I was taking the risk of losing my place in line if the transaction had been canceled. That's in addition to the risk I took that they wouldn't reply in time. This is a real problem with the system: not being able to include the presence of absence of these materials when listing and not being able to have conditions as a requester.  Many/most of those who select the full cover art option presumably want liner notes or discographical info.  I know I do.  With box sets, the front and back covers are often just an image, with all the written matter in the booklet.  As a listener of jazz and other instrumental music, without the discographical info contained in most quality releases, it can be hard to keep straight who all the performers were, the recording date, etc., not to mention the wonderful essays that come with a lot of releases of these types of music.  This is one of the reasons to have a physical CD, in addition to sound quality compared to mp3.

Which leads me to the question of how all these box sets are getting broken up with some parts lost or discarded.  I knew that some people don't keep the disc with the case or cover art, and even get rid of the latter, but I guess I didn't realize just how common this was before I joined here, even with box sets.  Tsk, tsk, tsk (of course this is not directed toward icberry or any other sender who may not have thrown away booklets her/himself.

The Serious Collector should not expect to find the complete contents of a box set at a trading site.  Sure, it would be nice.  But since it's not required, then expectations should be adjusted accordingly.  As a somewhat serious collector myself, if it's important to me that the box set I'm after have all items included and in very good condition, I will not seek it here, but rather order it as a purchase.

It's reasonable to discuss whether it would be feasible to change to system so that people who want all parts of a box set have that option. They seem to have a much stricter approach to this over on Swap a DVD:  any DVD that originally sold with something like a booklet is supposed to indicate that in the listing, and it can't be posted unless it includes those accompanying items. So I don't think there's something inherent about trading sites that means one can't hope for a way to get the complete package with box sets and special editions, as this is mandatory on the other site.  Of course, since they've accommodated CDs here that have less-complete-packaging, I suspect that if they made this site more like SaDVD then they would rightly make it optional to post or WL a box set with outer box and accompanying booklet, or people could post or WL it without.. 

Agreed.  While we wait for such improvements, fortunately we have alternatives (of which I have been forbidden to speak).

Thank you everyone, for your thoughtful responses. Certainly it seems like there are several ways to look at this issue.  (Recapping, my question was basically this: You post a set that may have been originally issued with parts not listed by SACD (such as a cardboard sleeve, libretto, thick, well-researched booklet, etc.).  In good faith, you give your trader a heads up PM that it is just as SACD lists it: discs + front and back art and nothing more. They say "thanks but no thanks".  What do you do?)

I think that we have basically no better choice than to list items at face value, without unlisted "extras".  I think SACD has indicated a willingness to work with a disappointed trader, up to a point, but that they stand by their original policy: "The sender [is] not required to send anything other than the front and back artwork" (unless something more is actually part of the listing).   If my trader cancels, it may create a wish-list problem for him/her that could keep me from being able to relist.   If I cancel, I can't relist if the person is still at the top of the wish list. So --I have just about concluded that a heads-up "offer" via PM  isn't the way to go, but a heads-up notification is better than nothing.  I can't force someone to take my CD set once listed.  Anyhow, that's my take.

(One other thought: you wouldn't think this would come up very often, if you were only listing your very own CDs you once loved and are now ready to pass on -- but I sometimes pick up stacks of good-condition, interesting-looking CDs at yard sales -- I love hearing new music, and the rest comes here to trade.  I won't always know what came in the original wrapper.)